| Author |
Message |
iotar
Username: iotar
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 11:08 am: | |
Apologies all for my absence and intermittent communication lately. My new hermetic cave has no internet connection and my access at work is being moderated by the fact that it's getting really fucking busy here as the term draws to a close.
But I'm not abandoning you and I am sticking my head in to keep track of the latest developments over here when I can.
i.x. |
martin
Username: martin
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 12:40 pm: | |
Yo, Zali! We sensed your abiding presence as the astral Good Shepherd of everything here.
Or something ... |
mjp
Username: mjp
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 1:14 pm: | |
Yes this flock of foolish sheep carry on bleating in his absence and you can hear their bells for miles. Some fancy frolicking and sheepdip: such is life. |
alex
Username: alex
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 10:18 am: | |
Bah. |
al
Username: al
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 10:13 am: | |
*dips in*
Yo Zali! Cool. Good to see your real world avatar at the weekend btb.
Oh and -
http://www.amazon.co.uk/S-T-A-L-K-E-R-Shadow-of-Ch ernobyl-PC/dp/B0000DG2T3/ref=pd_bbs_5/202-6830933- 7614253?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1179137280&sr=8-5
Sorry for long link - looking forward to the Nova Swing patch!
*crooks off* |
iotar
Username: iotar
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 10:36 am: | |
Do you think there's a playing mode where you can lie about with yr head in a puddle looking miserable? |
al
Username: al
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 10:52 am: | |
Surely the whole point of the game? Presumably you locate your puddle, fight off monsters etc, and then are rewarded with some miserable head lying. Once you have gathered money, experience etc you can no doubt trade up to a larger and more satisfyingly gloomy puddle. |
iotar
Username: iotar
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 11:03 am: | |
A system borrowing heavily from Gloom Raider III, wherein Laura Kraft sits uncomfortably on a wooden chair heavily pregnant with a mutant child watching a kettle boiling on the stove.
Nowhere near as good as the leaky plumbing in the conclusion to the Solaris game. |
martin
Username: martin
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 12:12 pm: | |
Ah, but the real pros reach Mutant Child Monkey level, where you play without actually touching the console! |
al
Username: al
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 1:08 pm: | |
Ho ho ho!
Anyone read Roadside Picnic, btb? Have literally just finished it over lunch... very cool. I have a *theory* about the ending. |
iotar
Username: iotar
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 2:25 pm: | |
Not yet. Must do so! |
martin
Username: martin
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 2:50 pm: | |
Same here. I know they collaborated with Tarkovsky, but that's all. How does it compare with the film?
A whole daisy chain of epiphanies in the script, but personal favourites include the bird that disappears in the room of dunes in the Zone, and the great poem by Tarkovsky's father that Stalker recites. For some reason, the current dvd butchers this into very lumpy English, whereas earlier prints carried a limpid translation by Kitty Hunter-Blair: "Now summer is gone, and might never have been."
Scroll down for full text (and photo) here:
http://community.livejournal.com/a_tarkovsky |
al
Username: al
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 3:16 pm: | |
It's magnificent - tho' now need to sit down and re-watch the film. And then re-read Nova Swing, etc... It's about 3.99 or something ridiculous on amazon for the science fiction greats edition, well worth picking up. |
al
Username: al
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 3:18 pm: | |
Cool page, btb. It also reveals that Kurosawa and Yoda may well be related... I for one have never seen them together in the same room:
'Marvellous progress in science we have been enjoying, but where will it lead humanity after all? Sheer fearful emotion this film succeeds in conjuring up in our soul.' |
dave
Username: dave
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 3:43 pm: | |
Picnic here: http://www.cca.org/cm/picnic.pdf
;)
I've become more hermetic than Io, but I'm still here. |
al
Username: al
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 4:24 pm: | |
Hi Dave!
*waves faintly from London* |
dave
Username: dave
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 4:41 pm: | |
Hey Al. Hope all is well.
I'm snowed in behind a mountain of work. Have been for months. But I'm somewhat consoled by the fact that I think real science is happening. There should be publications soon.
Al, I know you asked a while back so:
Briefly, the band is DOA. I think I'm done with music.
I went hiking in Harriman State Park recently and saw some climbers and had a thought: I should take up climbing and destroy my hands. If I can't play the bass, I never have to feel conflicted about not playing and becoming a grown up.
Plus, climbing (much like science) offers this: the only person I need to worry about it me. Nobody else's fuck ups matter.
Bah. Whatever. Back to the matter at hand: Roadside Picnic is great.
And thanks for that alternative translation MJP. Cool. |
arturo
Username: arturo
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 9:51 pm: | |
Briefly, the band is DOA
________
sorry to hear that. |
dave
Username: dave
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 10:49 pm: | |
Thanks Arturo. I was pretty down about it for a while, but I think it's for the best. It's time that I quit puttering around and go for my PhD.
I just can't tolerate the comorbid personality disorders that typify so many musicians and industry people. It's unnecessary and just ruins it for me.
You can't squeeze blood from a stone on one hand, and on the other, the pursuit of musical success is all too able to bleed you dry.
Here's what it really bolis down to for me though: science (and my potential PhD) are more important than another song about someone else's broken heart. |
al
Username: al
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 2:28 pm: | |
Hi Dave -
Hmm, sorry to hear that - a shame that things weren't sort-out-able.
>> the comorbid personality disorders that typify so many musicians and industry people
Hmm, that's very acute! When I was fleeing film I just thought 'bunch of wankers', which isn't remotely as precise. Ended up thinking that the only reason for doing personal creative work is the fact that you can put yourself in a position where you can produce and enjoy producing the work itself - anything else, while very positive, is just a bonus and can't neccesarily be counted on. The currency of art is the act of creation.
Sod separating the creative act from the industry - suspect one of the deep benefits of pulling away from the music biz as a whole will be being able to enjoy the playing for its own sake again.
Hey ho, I'm rambling. Would offer more pints of consolation if I was in NY... why not come over to London this summer at some point and say hi to everyone regardless of band? |
martin
Username: martin
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 2:46 pm: | |
>Say hi -
You bet, Dave - it'd be great to see you!
>Comorbid personality ... This is like "Deconstructing Harry," and Billy Crystal's great line as the Devil. "I was head of a major Hollywood studio for three years - but I had to quit. You just can't trust those guys ..." |
iotar
Username: iotar
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 3:11 pm: | |
>>I just can't tolerate the comorbid personality disorders that typify so many musicians and industry people. It's unnecessary and just ruins it for me.
Sorry to hear that it went pear-shaped, Dave. At the risk of sounding smug: I think it's the fear of just that sort of industry wankerdom that keeps me operating below the radar. And it shouldn't be that way. It should be possible to achieve a fair degree of success in a music career without having to turn into a shit-eating, armour-plated monster. But I'm always impressed when I meet musicians who, in spite of the shark infested waters, are still genuinely nice people.
Hope you get another chance.
And yes, why not come over some day and touch pint glasses with the ES irregulars? |
al
Username: al
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 3:25 pm: | |
>> At the risk of sounding smug
And throwing in my own bit of smugness - I only started to do really satisfying creative work when I completely walked away from any thought of industry, creative careers, etc. And in fact looking back I've only really got bummed out about the whole thing again and stopped producing interesting stuff when I've begun to think in *industry* terms again. |
al
Username: al
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 3:35 pm: | |
And finally - my creative mantra (before even 'yeah yeah whatever whatever') has always been 'Don't let the bastards grind you down'... so -
DON'T LET THE BASTARDS GRIND YOU DOWN!!!! |
martin
Username: martin
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 9:18 am: | |
Using the cyber-crampon and hauling myself back up the posts to "Stalker" - by an odd coincidence, the picture today of trains crossing the Korean border are an exact fit for the entrance to the Zone in the film:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/
No doubt it Means Something. |
al
Username: al
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 9:30 am: | |
Hmm, you're right - tho' with more flowers! |
dave
Username: dave
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 3:49 pm: | |
Thanks for all the kind words everyone.
Al, Io: You’re right of course. Being process-oriented is the only way to be when it comes to doing music (or any art really). If you’re just focused on an end product or result, you may as well work an assembly line, churning out widgets.
It gets worse though: not only are most “musicians” I’ve worked with not process-oriented, they also don’t even see music as the end product! They see standing on stage and being validated for puking up their diary-rock as the end goal. The music industry’s commoditization of music has just so successfully infantilized “musicians” and “songwriters” (not to mention listeners) that it's created a putrid selection bias which, not surprisingly given our culture of personality disorder, treats personality disordered woldviews as valid song topics and enshrines the "artistis" with no ability or desire to artistically engage with anything other than their narrow awareness of their own pathology. Connect the personal to the universal? Yeah right…
Worse yet, this is going to stay the status quo given the buying and listening trends of the market. A fucked up listener wants not only to be able to recognize his fucked up self in the art he consumes, he wants to see his fucked up self elevated to a status, however artificial, that makes him feel special for being fucked up in the first place. Unfortunately this type of listenre is ligion, thus creating quite a market for break up songs written by intrapsychic maggots.
Forget music with a writerly agenda or literary sensibility. Forget music designed to challenge the listener. Forget unique song structures or musicians with a large musical vocabulary. These things don't sell and artists who pursue them aren't operating on the same metric as the industry and are doomed to fail. In much the same way that one must content oneself with the fact that human laziness, stupidity, greed, and shortsightedness are actively diminishing biodiversity across the planet, an enlightened consumer of music now must be content with the lowest common denominator: a skinny white kid, probably a suburban transplant, who knows a few bar chords, looks vaguely greasy, unhygienic and sallow, and who has issues with women…and who thinks it’s his duty to “express himself”.
As a bassist, I’m tired of using my musical voice to support and buttress efforts like this. I used to love being in bands for the camaraderie, the us against them mentality and being plugged into a group of friends who worked to use music to see their ideals put to use and realized. There’s no camaraderie like this to be found in bands any more so far as I can tell…either I’ve changed or the industry has just finally won a more or less complete victory.
Indie(pendent) my ass. Everything smells uniforly of corporate shit.
All of this is to say you can’t separate the creative process from the industry because the industry has so successfully co-opted the people who actually engage in the artistic process. Sure, could resign myself to being a hobbyist, operate below the radar and do it for pleasure, but I’m good enough to make a living at music – it’s just that every time I get near an industry-level success and an opportunity to engage in the process for a living, something goes wrong, usually because of the industry’s built in selection bias.
If I wanted to be a bass player, I think I’d also have to resign myself to being a babysitter in addition to a sell out. As somebody who has his shit together, I’d always be the band’s interpersonal glue. So-and-so guitarist is fucked up in X way and I need to coddle him in Y way in order for the band to operate functionally.
Fuck that. If I’m not careful, I’ll wind up in the quintessential MJH-type situation five years from now. Stealing the indie rock bread truck will never allow me a valid opportunity to complain that it doesn’t handle like a Ferarri. I know this. I can see this. And not behaving accordingly would just be willful and childish.
I just don’t want to spend my life jumping through someone else’s pathological hoops or being an widget industry's bitch. That isn’t why I push for development in my life and bust my ass.
Besides, I’m 27 now and I never intended to do music forever. I loved it once and I just wanted to say I did it and experienced being the best for a short time. I always planned to leave it behind at some point and become a scientist.
I guess I'm over that now.
Time for a new process: http://www.rug.nl/psy/onderzoek/onderzoeksprogramm as/ps
I want to leave America. I want to get my PhD. I want the process I’m engaged in to not only be enjoyable for me, but to produce something that will actually matter.
I’m in the very preliminary planning stages, but I’d like very much to move to the Netherlands and study quantitative psychology. It’s not your typical musician’s plan B, but it works for me! |
alex
Username: alex
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 1:01 pm: | |
Sorry to hear that Dave. But I suspect that ol music yen will keep its hooks in you. I speak as a 44-year old who still dreams of making a hit record and has been in and out of bands all my life. In fact, I've just joined another: a kraut-inspred outfit featuring The Fall's ex-keyboard player. Mind you, I only joined on the understanding that they employed me for what I could add as an individual musician, and I would not be interested in not enjoying it. But that's the great thing about being 44.
I will probably quit next week ;) |
al
Username: al
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 1:21 pm: | |
*salutes rant*
Hmm, from here looks like you're making a good decision for the best reasons. Looking forward to the Empty Space away weekend in Amsterdam!
And, like Alex says, the music never goes away. Hopefully making it a less central (and therefore less potentially frustrating) part of life will return some of the joy to it.
Sorry for a slow response, btb - manic over here! |
dave
Username: dave
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 6:46 pm: | |
Yeah...it was a bit of a rant I guess. Sorry about that.
>>Looking forward to the Empty Space away weekend in Amsterdam!
Amen to that. In the meantime, maybe I'll make it to London sometime soon.
I hope to be able to enjoy music again someday, but that day seems a ways off...until then there are other things to enjoy.
Yesterday I hiked to the top of a mountain and read about latent class analysis and causality. That was pretty enjoyable. ;) |
al
Username: al
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 9:29 am: | |
Nothing wrong with a good rant! As a rule, I'm right behind them.
Reminds me a bit of when I came out of film - didn't even go to the cinema for 6 months or so (and I'd been going 2,3,4 times a week to keep up with all the latest releases). I've never really got my joy-in-film back - I love individual films, but not really the medium in the same way - as I now see the medium as a function of an industry that I really dislike.
On the plus side, it all taught me a lot about how I want to work creatively, and indeed in general! And I think you're much more securely based than I was when I was ranting about / leaving film - I didn't really have a Plan B, so on top of the *destruction of dreams* feeling I had the *what the hell am I going to do now* feeling, which bummed me out for a year or two. |
dave
Username: dave
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, June 04, 2007 - 10:44 pm: | |
Al: that last post is far wiser and gentler than anything I was capable of stating when I wrote my rant.
>>The medium is a function of the industry.
Yes. Very succinct. In the end, I'll go with that in place of my rant I think.
What's eating at me now is this: while concluding that the medium is a function of the industry displays a certain degree of wisdom, it's by no means a radical insight. Why did I (we?) have to work so hard for it? Why be so pissed off and hurt by it. Why did it take so long? Was it inevitable? Is a similar insight at the end of most roads? Will I feel like this about science and psychology some day ?
Fuck if I know. But that is a terrifying and paralyzing thought...
What I do know is that I went here this weekend:
http://tinyurl.com/2nd56h
and got more out of it than my last ten gigs as a bassist. I suddenly enjoy feeling insgnificant while standing next to a gorge carved out during the Devonian era, whereas previously enjoyed feeling that I was significant while standing onstage playing the bass. Ironically enough I like both hiking and playing live music, in part anyway, for the same reason - they allow moments when I'm not thinking about anything else but what I'm doing in the moment. |
al
Username: al
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, June 07, 2007 - 2:12 pm: | |
Hi Dave - sorry for a slow reply, I've only just seen your post! Bit hectic just now, so more later. |
al
Username: al
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 10:43 pm: | |
Hi Dave, right... very flattered, tho' it's really just 8 years or so of perspective I think!
>> Is a similar insight at the end of most roads? Will I feel like this about science and psychology some day?
Hmm. Well, remembering film times again - when I came out of film, I was very depressed as I felt that my dream had let me down and that I didn't have any others - very genuinely wondered what I would do with the rest of my life.
Of course I was quite wrong about really wanting to be in film; and what I wanted out of creativity in my life, I couldn't have got from film. But I could only find that out by throwing myself into it, and getting so pissed off with it all...
So in the end I see the depression and pain as something useful, in that it taught me what the world was really like, and made me aware of where I was willing to compromise and where I wasn't. The great thing about pain is that it's aversion therapy - it teaches you how to avoid whatever created it in future, and because you're avoiding the bad you do get to engage more with the good.
Anyway, I'm shagged, so am off to get another whisky and then collapse. Hope all's well in NY... suspect I'll be over there again in November, but by then come to think of it you'll be in Amsterdam! Tssk, we are an international board... |
dave
Username: dave
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 2:18 pm: | |
Hey Al, sorry to be so slow getting back to you.
>>Of course I was quite wrong about really wanting to be in film
I'm not sure where I stand when it comes to feeling that I was wrong about wanting to be in music. Music per se never let me down - it was always the people and institutions that revolved around it ever so parasitically. They carried too many fucked up expectations and too much self-entitlement for me to actually engage with music meaningfully. I was too busy dealing with them in most instances. They function almost expressly to block the path to music in some respects.
I guess I feel like it wasn't wrong to want music, but that I was wrong to think that there wouldn't be people who would be ready to spoil it for me. We're never allowed easy access to the better things in life I think.
I may be making something of nothing though. Splitting semantic hairs...
>>because you're avoiding the bad you do get to engage more with the good.
Very true I think. I finally picked up a guitar the other night. Played alone in my bedroom. I was rusty and it was out of tune, but it felt great. I was surprised to feel optimistic when I was done.
>>but by then come to think of it you'll be in Amsterdam
I've been doing some logistics and planning, and I think that it would be really tough for me to enter a PhD program in the next year or two. I need some time to pay off my existing student debt, build up my savings and land a scholarship or two (I don't just want a PhD, I want someone else to pay for it). And to just get into the frame of mind where I feel like I can live and breathe just one thing for 5 years and come out the other side as an expert.
Anyway, I'll be here in November.
Other random news:
I'm setting out to join the Catskills 3500 club this month...and I'm thinking to buy a Harmonica. |